As told to Shikha Sharma:
Arundhati Roy is hoping the BJP government will lose the upcoming general elections, but knows that the influence of the Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh (RSS) will continue to stay, even if that happens.
“What is happening now is very dangerous and I do hope that in these elections, the government changes, but the fact remains that the RSS will remain, the corporate media that has promoted it will remain, the institutions that have been penetrated will continue to be compromised. So, even if the government falls, we are by no means out of danger,” Roy told Youth Ki Awaaz. She was speaking during the release of her book, The Doctor and The Saint.
“The big difference between what happened prior to World War II and now is, Hitler actually revived a broken economy in a way that gave him a great deal of appeal among young people, whereas here, they (the BJP) have managed to break the economy,” she said.
In a freewheeling conversation, Roy spoke to Youth Ki Awaaz about what she makes of Right wing’s appropriation of Gandhi as a symbol, India’s shrinking space of dissent and the culture of censorship that has gripped the nation.
On The Modi Led BJP Government’s Brand Of Politics
I think this sort of configuration was coming since 1925 when the RSS was formed. This government’s programme of communalism, of divisiveness, of hatred is not accidental. In fact, one of the very interesting things is that between the 19th and 20th centuries, when there was a reformist movement that was based on ‘trying to bring Dalits into the Hindu fold’, the movement of cow protection, nagari pracharak and ghar wapsi all used to function from the same office.
It’s got very deep political roots. What is happening now is very dangerous and I do hope that in these elections, the government changes. The fact remains, though, that (even if they lose), the RSS will remain, the corporate media that has promoted it will remain, the institutions that have been penetrated will continue to be compromised. So, even if the government falls, we are by no means out of danger.
On Right Wing’s Appropriation Of Gandhi As A Symbol
While there was a huge divergence on Gandhi’s position on communalism, on the issue of Hindu and Muslims, on the issue of caste there was a great convergence. There isn’t that much daylight between their positions, so I would not say the Right wing appropriated Gandhi, because I think they always made a place for him.
On Fascism: The Difference Between Hitler’s Germany And Modi’s India 
Their (BJP’s) ideology is surely fascist. Whether they have managed to get a grip on this country is a different matter. Don’t forget, though, Fascism came to power in a democratic country, in a democratic election in Germany. The big difference between what happened prior to World War II and now is that Hitler actually revived a broken economy in a way that gave him a great deal of appeal among young people, whereas here, they have managed to break the economy. That’s a very, very big difference.
On The Growing Culture Of Censorship And Violence In India
In India, earlier, films were refused a censor certificate or certain books were banned. Now you are down to writers and journalists being assasinated, theatres being burnt, filmmakers being threatened and (while all this happens), the government just sort of stands aside and from the rhythm of its breathing makes mobs feel protected.
On Caste
I think debate is so real, so urgent and so important for us to understand right now – in a deep way, and not in a posturing sort of way because it really strikes at the heart of Indian society. I believe that caste is the engine that runs Indian society. And its remarkable that other kinds of discrimination like apartheid, racism and sexism are debated all the time, all over the world and not just in India. But caste, the only time Indians try to deal with it is during the elections.
Caste has been made out to be something eastern, and esoteric; something conflated with yoga and Gandhi and the Beatles and the hippies. So, the absolutely unacceptable cruel hierarchy is sort of erased. It’s what I call the ‘the problem of unseeing’.
On India’s Deteriorating Media Landscape
We have been building up towards a situation where when you look at the structure of ownership in media, there is a massive conflict of interest. You have Mukesh Ambani’s Reliance more or less owning and controlling shares in 24 hour news channels. You have a conflict of interest in the way that its run. That has to end.
If you have a weapon’s dealer running a TV company, of course, they are going to want a war. And it’s far too dangerous. We (India and Pakistan) have become the first two nuclear powers in history to bomb each other. You just can’t have TV anchors sitting in studios and saying we don’t want condemnation, we want blood. It’s far too dangerous. Instead of condemning these individual points of insanity, we really have to look at how the media is structured.
On The Existence Of Space To Dissent In India
There is space, but it depends on who is doing it. So, it’s all a very high stakes game. A person unprotected in a small town in India can’t say what I can say, or a Muslim, can’t say what I can say. But, on the other hand, in my case, there’s so much light on what I say – there’s bullying, there’s trolling. So, that’s the other side.
I won’t say the space has been completely forfeited, but I will say that I am pretty impressed by the way people have been standing up. That’s the only way to do it. To just, force them to return that space to us.
(The interview has been edited for brevity and clarity)